Jeremy Thomas July 31 at 12:54pm -- The meaning of this being an advanced Group.

Jeremy Thomas

July 31 at 12:54pm

The meaning of this being an advanced Group

We assume that people in this group have a minimal intellectual capacity that is not tied to any academic degree but to the capacity of learning from public and easily available information and from what others had already done.

Progress in Science is not only gained by discovering new things but by building knowledge on top of knowledge gained, if we do not use or learn from what others had done then progress is really not possible because we will be doing and rediscovering what others had already done in a never ending loop.

Traditional Ufology had fallen many times in that trap of going over and over the same things, nighttime observers many times "discover" dual or triplets objects moving in the sky, the consummated believers will assume this to be their beloved UFOs and that will be the end of their search, that will be the end of their "research"(if that can be called research).

But many times very simple searches in Google for example will reveal the correct answer to many questions, the pervasive assumptions and preconceptions will only lead to the perpetuation of myths.

We all are learning and gaining knowledge will only help in making better analysis and documentation of our observations, knowledge is there to be shared and build on top of it and we should try to use what is already public knowledge otherwise we will be stuck in the same patterns that classical Ufologists had been for more than 60 years.

Comments:Comments:

Jeremy Thomas To "wide open this field" we need to go beyond what traditional Ufologists had done: we need to have an in-depth knowledge of atmospheric properties studying what others had done, even research papers, we need to know our instruments limitations and advantages, knowing only advantages and ignoring limitations will lead to the mistake done by almost all nighttime observers with their very limited optical magnification equipment and ignoring the intrinsic limitations of nighttime observations: the lack of light. And mostly fighting our very own tendency to "assume" using preconceptions, filling the missing details or information with preconceived ideas; the very root of all traditional Ufology myths and problems.

This will take many, many years but that is the nature of this game.

July 31 at 3:14pm

Rob Freeman I understand that there is much better equipment under development & will be on the market soon that will start to allow more detailed observation of night time anomalies. Hopefully that will start also to solve the questions around who & what these nocturnal visitors are? A lot is myth of course, but there is so much beyond that, waiting to be discovered. Einstein once said: "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science.”

July 31 at 7:28pm

Jeremy Thomas Well Rob Freeman many here had been doing regular observations precisely because there is alluring in doing it, the fact that many of us continue doing these observations, improving the instruments, finding before others the limitations of these instruments is because we really are interested in moving forward avoiding the repetition of old mistakes that you now are encountering for a first time, we like precision and objectivity something very rare to find in many people, by pointing mistakes and debunking myths we are trying that people avoid making the same mistakes, but we also know that many people are unable to learn and/or unwilling to listen, they will continue repeating the same mistakes that had been done before over and over.

As I had mentioned before several times the technology is here for nighttime observations and the main limitation is optical magnification, waiting for mass produced equipment to resolve research problems had very rarely solved the research problems, only custom made, tailored equipment for "the problem at hand" usually is the way to move forward, but many people do not even know the basic physics behind the problems.

July 31 at 7:51pm

Rob Freeman Thanks Jeremy .. for example, I'm working with GSCI, who supplied my thermal & night vision, here in Canada. They have access to thermal sensors that are twice (2x) as sensitive as existing, and the optic company is prepared to custom make a lens with 2X more magnification. For me / us, that's quite exciting, as I / we use the thermal scope for both day & night observation. I'm very frustrated that I cannot see more detail than I'm currently getting & am continuing to explore & obtain better equipment.

July 31 at 8:01pm · Edited

Jeremy Thomas And after several years "interacting" with people in this field my "objectivity" had only hardened because I had seen first hand how many people think and jump to conclusions using assumptions and preconceptions, it is not really hard to see how many myths in this field had been created and nurtured, the "cloaking" myth just one of the many, the use of night vision monoculars for atmospheric observations alone as a "effective" tool is another myth, etc. But only by having a critical way of thinking you will be able to see some "signal" on the very loud and pervasive "noise".

July 31 at 8:10pm

Jeremy Thomas The "goal" when observing day or night, Rob Freeman should be first detecting the objects of interest and second getting as many structure details as possible. This "simple" fact "dictate" the type of instruments to use to make these observations:

1- In daylight using a dual optical system, a spotter in IR for detection and a "resolver" of high optical magnification, estimations suggest a 150x optical magnification for the resolver.

2- In nighttime again a dual system: A spotter using relatively low optical magnification and image intensifier and a "resolver" of around 150x optical magnification with "high" aperture to maximize the collecting of light and image intensifier. This kind of system will be heavy and likely have to be all motorized.

The technology to do this is already here, dual optical systems for daylight observations had been used for some years now, but a dual optical system fully capable of nighttime observations nobody as far as I know had used regularly.

July 31 at 8:36pm

Rob Freeman Thanks Jeremy, I appreciate all of this .. I'm one of those guys who has to experience everything for myself & won't believe something or anything, unless I experience it for myself, which includes both failure as well as success. My mom used to call me "a doubting Thomas", LOL, because I wanted to see proof on everything. 

I'm a bit of a lone wolf, as many I think are, who are in this group. Even though what I saw as a kid of 12 in the sky was at night, I'm spending as much time, but really more, observing during the day, and will also put the effort & expense into the type of equipment needed to effectively see & document everything that is available to be seen, over time. 

I'm coming at all of this with an open mind & will no doubt trip & fall from time to time, as we all will, but I have to believe, with guys like you (much appreciated) & others critiquing everything I do, I will get to the truth. I don't mind that & always look forward to everything you & others have say, because it moves me along my path faster. I always believe cream always rises to the top, and so does the truth (eventually). 

As I get more into this, I'll likely be a target like you, but I don't really care, as I'm doing all of this to get answers for myself, not to try to convince anyone of anything. We'll certainly share everything we find, but I'm not worried whether they believe me or not .. the fun is in the exploring & the discovering. 

I know that there is a slight difference between you & I over night time stuff, but I often wonder if you saw what I did as a kid of 12, would you be thinking slightly, but not too much, differently today? So I ask you the question directly .. have you ever seen something dramatic in the sky at night, where there is no question that it is something either very secret advanced, that we (military/government) have, or is possibly ET?

July 31 at 8:40pm · Edited

Rob Freeman Jeremy, just read your info on daytime / nighttime spotting .. we're both typing at the same time :-) Thanks for this .. I'm working to have both day & night setups as effective as possible, and will get there over time. Much appreciated!

July 31 at 8:50pm

Rob Freeman Jeremy .. I had attached this 300mm SONY lens to my IR Samsung SCB-2000, only to be disappointed that it will not work .. correct me if I'm wrong, but the new lenses need a power source & have to "interact" with a "smart" camera .. is that correct? I wanted to use it as an IR spotter. And if it worked, was going to try my 600mm SONY lens also.

July 31 at 8:58pm · Edited

Jeremy Thomas Flarings in "response" to "signals" is the more "dramatic" thing that I ever seen day or night, ETs is really something far removed from my views, what I had seen and watched from others do not point to the cartoon Flash Gordon ideas of Ufologists and Hollywood, it is something else or different, it is deeply connected to "reality" and the way that we perceive it.